Janet consults with a distressed parent of two boys who feels stuck in a destructive pattern. She describes how she’s struggling with feeling constantly irritated, overwhelmed, and just angry. “I love my kids more than anything,” she says, “but they’re driving me crazy.” Janet agrees with the mom that boundaries are a big part the issue and suggests a new approach for her to try. Surprisingly, the solution they come up with is not stricter enforcement, but just the opposite.
Transcript of “I Don’t Like My Kids, and That Breaks My Heart (A Parent Consultation)”
Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.
Today I’m going to be consulting with a parent who reached out to me, a lovely parent who’s distressed about feeling so irritated with her children. Almost all of us as parents go through phases where we feel like this parent’s feeling right now, and I’m looking forward to speaking with her. The one thing I like about these consultations is that I really never know where they’re going to lead, and that’s definitely true in this case.
Hi, welcome. Thank you so much for being willing to come on here today to share with us about what’s going on with you. I really, really appreciate it.
Parent: Thank you so much for having me. This is very exciting for me.
Janet Lansbury: Thank you. Well, if you don’t mind, I would like to first read the note that you sent me, I think this was about a week ago, and then we’ll take it from there. I’m going to have a lot of questions for you because I really want to understand what’s going on.
Parent: Yeah, absolutely.
Janet Lansbury: So here it is:
I’m stuck. I feel like I don’t like my kids and that breaks my heart to say. I love my kids more than anything, but they’re driving me crazy right now. Everything they do irritates me. I’m stuck in this cycle of being irritated, which obviously makes their behaviors worse, then making me angry, and I explode at them saying hurtful words. As I’m working on healing my own struggles, how can I be the parent I want to and need to be for them? If I’m constantly irritated, overstimulated, overwhelmed, and just angry, how can I show them love and compassion? How can I help them regulate their little four-and-a-half- and three-and-a-half-year-old feelings, when I don’t know how to regulate my own at 32?
I feel like I know what I need to do, but I can’t get unstuck from this cycle. I’ve taken your masterclass, and everything you teach feels so good and so right to me. And when I’ve practiced some of it before, it’s clear the difference it makes for all of us. But why can’t I get back there and why can’t I stay there?
I imagine you have a large volume of people just like me needing help, so I understand that you may not get back to me, but there’s something therapeutic about just writing to you. Thank you for all that you do. I’m scared to think of the parent I’d be if I hadn’t found your work.
Well, thank you for saying all those kind things. Was this therapeutic for you to share with me?
Parent: Yeah, absolutely.
Janet Lansbury: Good.
Parent: I always find writing very helpful and just knowing that maybe you’d read it and hear me was really helpful.
Janet Lansbury: So did you come to any new realizations or anything like that since you wrote this?
Parent: I guess kind of just narrowing it down more and understanding why I think this cycle keeps happening. And it’s boundaries. It’s the lack of boundaries that my husband and I have with our kids, and that’s where it’s all coming from.
Janet Lansbury: Well, okay. That’s amazing that you know that, because that’s exactly what I was going to say. I was going to say, before I ask you a bunch of questions, I wanted to give you my thoughts, just without knowing any details, just based on what you wrote to me.
Before that, I want you to please forgive yourself, however many times a day you need to, for feeling this way. Everybody feels this at one time or another. It’s not a bad sign that there’s anything wrong with you.
And the second thing is that I would want you to, just based on your note, give yourself permission to have more boundaries. Firmer, earlier boundaries. So I want to talk with you about why that’s hard, because I know it is hard for a lot of us. They have a strong reaction a lot of the time, and that feeling of being in disagreement with them, at odds with them, where they’re upset because of a boundary that we’ve set, it’s the hardest thing, right?
Parent: Absolutely.
Janet Lansbury: So let’s hear some examples of what feels the hardest, what’s most irritating, and maybe we can look at how to set a boundary there and what that entails.
Parent: Sure. So I think the most difficult time for us is mornings in general, trying to get out the door. So I’m very much let the feelings be, thank you very much for showing me that way. But with that, obviously they have a lot of feelings and they’re hard to deal with.
So, trying to get them out the door. It seems they feed on each other, and the way that they play. They’re boys, they’re both boys, and they’re wild. They play very rough and they seem to feed off of each other. So trying to get them to stop what they’re doing seems impossible.
Some firm boundaries that we’ve had, anyways, are not jumping on the couch, not hitting or pushing, throwing hard objects. And we offer alternatives to these as well: Here’s a ball. If you want to jump, jump on the floor. Or we have this big bean bag chair that they love, so we’ll suggest that. This all sounds great, except when you’re repeating it over and over and over again and they’re not listening to that. I feel like I’m just saying, No! No! No! over and over again. It’s the only words out of my mouth.
Janet Lansbury: So it sounds like it’s not so much about you knowing where to set boundaries, it’s about the way that you’re setting boundaries. When we try to set boundaries verbally like that at a time when children are doing things that, even at your children’s young age, they know they’re not supposed to do that. They know it winds you up, but they’re doing it. And at those times, their behavior has gone into unreasonable. And when we try to address it with reason, it’s not going to work.
So when we say, Just don’t do this, why don’t you do this instead? Something that, if they were in a calm moment and probably wouldn’t be pushing that boundary anyway, that would make sense. Oh, I have another choice here. But children don’t feel like they have a choice when they’re in it like that. And they’re, like you said, playing off each other, winding each other up. That energy is contagious between children.
So what happens is, like you said, you’re repeating yourself, you’re giving them options, you’re doing all these really kind, respectful things, and it’s not working for you. There’s no way you’re not going to get irritated. There’s no way you’re not going to not like your kids when this keeps happening. That makes sense. That’s just what happens.
Dialing this all back, do you have any sense of what’s causing them in the first place to do this? I mean at this point it sounds like they know this gets a rise out of everybody, so it’s like they can’t help but go there when they’re young children. Or one of them does and then the other one follows. That’s the setup that I can help you undo, for sure. But do you think there are other reasons that the transition times are tricky? Do they have enough sleep generally? Are you giving enough time for it? Do you think there’s anything in your approach to the transition itself that’s making it harder for them?
Parent: I feel like at one point I could kind of narrow it down and if I got a headstart sort of and started the morning off in the right headspace, I feel like there was a difference. But it just seems like, I don’t know if it’s with my oldest starting school in September, I don’t know if it’s come from that as well, but it seems like he just wakes up and it’s just going to be a bad day. And it’s not because I put that on him either. I’m always so excited and greeting him and so happy to see him and the love has got to be received. So honestly, it’s really puzzling to think why he’s going there now.
He’s eating fine. He sleeps the same amount as always.
Janet Lansbury: Is this the older one or the younger one?
Parent: The older. Both, really, they both sleep pretty well. The oldest doesn’t eat quite as well in general.
But I think I’ve noticed, too, if I tell them—so I’ve always given them a heads up: “I’m going to brush my teeth now and after I’m done brushing my teeth, then we’ll go get you ready.” So it seems to have always worked, but now I notice that’s when it’s allowing their brain to say, Okay, we got two minutes. Let’s do the worst imaginable thing we can and see how she feels about that. And I’m saying that as if it’s personal. I know they’re not personally attacking me, but that’s how it feels in those moments.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah, because on one level it’s, Can my mom do this thing with us in the morning? Let me see, let me test her. I mean, not that they’re trying to test you, again, out of meanness or a personal attack, but just, We need to find this out again because she hasn’t been calm about this, she hasn’t been able to handle us.
Sometimes I think of it like a jack-in-the-box. I mean, I don’t like jack-in-the-boxes because I don’t like anticipation of something jumping. But you do it, right? You keep doing it and doing it. And that’s sort of how children can get in these situations. They just find themselves winding up the jack-in-the-box, even though they’re not really loving the response at all, and they know you don’t, but they can’t resist it. They can’t resist discovering that again.
The way to go about this, though, really comes from seeing beyond that they are doing this kooky stuff right now. It’s definitely become a thing, and because it’s become a thing, you can also dial it back. But the way to dial it back is for you to accept that it’s gone that way and make a choice, as best you can, that you are not going to get caught up in it. That you’re going to let the crazy be crazy and you are going to emotionally protect yourself. You just get a little emotional distance from it, if you can see it for what it is.
It’s like, if there was ever anyone when you were younger or people in your life that you could tell were trying to kind of irritate you and wind you up, and you kept falling into it. But then you realized, If I don’t let this bother me, they stop doing it. There’s nothing in it for them when it doesn’t bother me anymore. So kind of getting to that place of, Okay, this is going to be wild. Maybe they’re not going to brush their teeth this time. And I’m just going to let some of that go and just do the best I can. I’m not going to take the bait. I’m not going to fall into that trap of trying to manage them and calm them down and tell them not to do all these things they’re doing.
Instead, when they go over to jump on the couch, I saunter over, “Uh-huh, very funny. Nope, we’re not going to do that.” I’d help them down, projecting as much confidence as I can. And yeah, it is kind of an act, I guess, and maybe it feels impossible to do right now, but it is that thing of knowing that it actually is really harmless stuff that’s just gathered steam. And the way to lessen that is to just let the steam run out and not fuel it, not get involved in it in that way.
I wouldn’t say no to those things that you’ve already said no to, that your children are quite aware are nos. I would just say, “Oh, uh-uh, look at what you’re doing now. I’ve got to stop you here,” and you’re physically stopping as best you can, but in a confident way if possible. You know it’s not going to be perfect, and maybe they’re going to get a few jumps in. It’s better for the goal that you have here, which is to try to let them know that you’re not going to let this get a rise out of you anymore, it’s better for that goal for them to jump a few times and you to go kind of slowly over there, “Ah, there you go again. No buddy, not going to let you do that.” Very chill, very la-di-da. If you could be like that a couple of times, because they’ll probably need to do it a couple of times, I believe it will stop
But it really does, I think, have to start with you accepting that this is irritating. It’s totally irritating! It’s gotten out of control, but it’s gotten out of control in a way because you’ve engaged in it, you’ve bought into it. And you don’t have to do that anymore. What’s the worst that can happen? Maybe they break the couch, hopefully not, but they jump on the couch. You’re a little late to school or wherever you have to go, you have to bring their clothes in the car. But it’s sort of this thing of cutting your losses, all for the sake of demonstrating to them that you’ve got this as a leader. As best you can, it doesn’t have to be perfect. Don’t be like a robot, but just be . . .
Parent: Not bothered.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah, not bothered because you see it for what it is, as this stupid stuff.
Parent: Yeah, it is.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah, that’s totally irritating. There’s nothing wrong with you for feeling like that, you should be irritated. But when something’s so irritating and you want it to stop and you know it’s just so immature, it’s silly, it’s not personal, then don’t let yourself go there into taking it so seriously, if you can.
Parent: Yeah, that makes total sense.
Janet Lansbury: And if you want to talk more about how that would actually look in the moment, if you could give me more details about what you’re doing and what that’s looking like.
Parent: Okay, so oldest child is letter C. So C is jumping on the couch, I’m making breakfast. So now I’m going to stop making breakfast, go calmly get C off. But D, younger child, sees what C is doing. So then he runs to, I don’t know, the kitchen and grabs something he’s not supposed to off the counter. So now I’m going to do that. But then literally now it’s back and forth. So now C is thinking it’s hilarious, he’s got that evil laugh going on, and he’s thinking of what he can do next. So now I’ve done this two or three times, I’m still calm.
And then the fourth one happens, and then I see the time and I’m like, Okay, we’re going to be late if we don’t do this, there’s no room for error. So by that fourth time, how are you still calm, Janet?
Janet Lansbury: Yeah, I get that. So okay, the way I’m picturing this: don’t go try to get him down from jumping, because you know that’s a trap and it’s not going to work. And plus it’s giving it power. So if you could let it go one or two times, maybe you could move the coffee table away or whatever you’re afraid he’s going to fall on. I don’t know if you’re afraid he’s going to break the couch or hurt himself?
Parent: They’ve pushed each other off before and one got injured once, not severely injured, but hurt, thrown his arm out a bit. Yeah, so that’s it. There’s nothing too dangerous around that they could hurt themselves on. We’ve made it fairly safe.
Janet Lansbury: So if you could kind of let that go and just be like, “Oh, you guys are jumping over there, hope that’s fun.” I mean, they’d be more shocked than they ever have been in their life that it’s not bothering you.
Parent: Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: It’s not like you’re saying, This is okay, I want you to do this. You’re saying, I’m not going to let you guys do this ridiculous stuff you know is wrong to get to me. And maybe that does mean seeming like you’re letting go on boundaries a couple of times, but it’s really holding off, unless it’s an emergency, for the goal of bringing down the temperature. Way, way down. You’ve got the boundaries, you’re not saying it’s okay to do this. You’re saying, “Okay guys, can you stop?” But you’re not going to run over there and give them that attention around it. You’re really just doing less.
And it’s hard to trust this, but it really does work, I swear. If you can just demonstrate that this doesn’t have so much power with you. Seeing what they’re doing and not letting them win that—but it’s never a win for them. But not letting them have this over you. Because you’ve got to be the tallest one there, and the tallest one doesn’t get wound up by these obvious, stupid things that they’re doing.
I had this experience once with my son that just kind of proved all the times I’ve been through this with toddlers and four year olds and six year olds and other people’s children, my own. My son—and he was older, he was like 14 or something—and he was doing this thing where he was drooling, like a big drool down. And I went, “Ew, stop that! Yuck.” And of course he did it again and again. Finally at the third time, I was saying to myself, Okay, Janet, take your own advice here. And I just let him do it. And I said, “Did you enjoy that?” And of course he never did it again.
Parent: It wasn’t interesting anymore.
Janet Lansbury: It wasn’t interesting. And that’s how kids are. I mean, even at that age it was like that, but it’s just so almost embarrassingly obvious on their end what they’re doing. And you and your husband don’t have to fall for that. You don’t have to. But it’s going to mean not getting wound up by every little thing. And that could be the hard part too. Again, not taking that bait.
Parent: Yeah. But in those moments it feels like they’re testing me, because they really are. But yeah, it feels like they’re trying to get the biggest reaction out of me and I’m totally feeding into it and I feel like I get a bigger, louder reaction every time I explode.
Janet Lansbury: And again, it’s normal to explode when you’re feeding into it in a way that’s seeing it as, I’ve got to stop this and I’ve got to stop that and I’ve got to do all these things! So in a way, what we were talking about before, how it’s about boundaries—this isn’t really about boundaries. You have the boundaries. This is about how boundaries actually work in these kinds of situations. They work when we can rise above them so much that we don’t take it that seriously.
And it’s hard, because we were brought up like you would never do that at your house or you’d never say that to your parent. All of that is in us, but we’re trying to raise our children in a way that’s more relationship-based where we’re not doing things that distance us from each other so much.
And this won’t. I mean, if you can manage this even a little bit, to back off on taking it all so seriously and not trying to say no to all these little ridiculous things, you’ll see that it just lightens the whole thing up. It makes them feel really safe with you, because you’re just nodding your head, Mm-hmm, there you go. Very funny. Oh, that’s good. Look at you trying to get me over there. Call them on it like, “Oh, now you really need to come in the kitchen and mess with me because I wanted to go over there. No, I’m not going to let you do that.” The attitude is everything.
Parent: Yes, I can hear myself saying those things with attitude. Yeah, I see that. I just need to get that in check. And I can see that they would probably do that one or two times and then I feel like they would just stop, because it just isn’t a thing.
Janet Lansbury: Yeah. They’re not comfortable as kids when they’re that young and we’re thrown. And it’s almost like the stronger the child, the stronger the parent they need. They need a parent to be less thrown by them. And when you’re outnumbered, they need you to be even less thrown by that.
But it’s actually not an energy thing. You’re exerting much more energy now by the way that you’re trying to be on them. And I’ve got to go over here and I’ve got to go over there! That’s exhausting. And it’s this horrible feeling of being out of control, right?
You might even say to them, because it’s very freeing to kind of put everything out there, and you can say in the morning when you see that energy starting in one of them, you can say, “It looks like you’re winding up to have a wild morning here with me. You know what? I know I’ve gotten involved in that and gotten wound up with you, but I’m done. I’m not doing that anymore. So we’re working together here. Do you guys want your food? Because I’ve got to make the food. You can jump if you really need to jump. I’d rather you didn’t, you know that, but I’m just not going to run around. I’m done with that.” You can say that in a not-angry, confident way and set it up for yourself and set it up with them.
Then they’re going to make you prove it, of course, they’re just going to make you prove it. But you can, I believe in you. And there’ll be little moments where you fall back into that and that’s okay. The more you practice this, you’ll see that this is a place in you that you can go to and it’s a really, really comfortable place when you get used to it. And it’s in you!
And maybe you just need permission to not be on them for all these little things. To, in a way, let go of boundaries. So it’s the opposite of what I thought and you thought it was about. To let go for the bigger picture. So in a way, it’s just having a different boundary, a kind of personal boundary. Do I really want to be micromanaging this morning or do I want to show that I’m just above a lot of that? Doesn’t work with me, guys.
Parent: Yeah, absolutely.
Janet Lansbury: So you could see that as possible. Do you think your partner would be on board with that? Is he there too?
Parent: He’s not here with me right now. He’s at work most mornings, except he’s on rotating shifts now. So he’ll be home in the morning for one week and then not for another week, back and forth.
Janet Lansbury: So then it’s both of you for the one week and then just you for the other week?
Parent: That’s right. Yeah.
Janet Lansbury: And does it happen just as much with both of you?
Parent: Yes, it does. Almost worse. Different, when we’re both here versus just me.
Janet Lansbury: Well, maybe when you’re both there, if your husband’s willing to give this a try, you could almost have a little contest with him of who could be the coolest.
Parent: I like that.
Janet Lansbury: Who can be the most unflappable when there’s lots of stuff flapping at you?
Parent: Yeah, yeah. All right.
Janet Lansbury: None of it’s, again, about that you don’t have boundaries anymore. It’s a different kind of boundary: that you’re not going to let them draw you in. What that does, too, is it makes them less likely to escalate when you’re not feeding into it. If you give them nothing to go on, no interest there coming from you, then they’re going to be less likely to go overboard with whatever they’re doing physically or anything like that.
Parent: Yeah, that sounds so good.
Janet Lansbury: So you can picture it, or at least taking baby steps?
Parent: You know what, I totally can.
Janet Lansbury: Cool.
Parent: And I think you’re right, and I think I really needed the permission and I think I just needed to be heard. And yeah, there was something therapeutic about writing you, but even more so about getting this opportunity to talk with you.
Janet Lansbury: I’m so glad. You can totally do this, but I believe it starts with, first of all, forgiving yourself for all the things you were saying at the beginning of this note, that you don’t like your kids. All of that is just par for the course in parenting through certain phases. And this has gotten out of hand because you have tried to be so on it. You have tried to be such a great parent and being on them for all these boundaries, and you are outnumbered a lot of the time. So they’re feeling too powerful. Help them be little boys again by not letting them have this power. Just taking back control of the house. Even if it looks like it’s very messy underneath, with the things that they’re doing, you’re going to still feel like you have the upper hand and trust that they’re not going to take it too far if it doesn’t get a rise out of you. Because I really don’t believe they will.
Parent: They’re so sweet.
Janet Lansbury: And you’re obviously a great mom. They love you and they just can’t help but mess with you. And you don’t deserve it!
Parent: Yeah, I don’t deserve it. I gave you life, children. Come on!
Janet Lansbury: It does feel like a thankless job sometimes, but I’m sure there’s those moments. And when they see you coming out with a little more confidence and not letting it bother you, they’re going to feel so loved. I mean, they’re not going to show it to you right away, but they’re going to feel it. Their little hearts are going to go, Ahh, okay, she’s not going to get into this with us. She’s really stronger than that. And she sees us, as silly guys that know they’re doing wrong things. They’re just getting caught up in it.
Parent: Yeah, definitely.
Janet Lansbury: Is there anything else?
Parent: I mean, I could talk to you forever, so yeah. But really, it’s been so lovely. Yeah, I could honestly talk to you forever, but I really appreciate you.
Janet Lansbury: It’s my pleasure, and I really enjoyed talking with you, and I can’t wait to hear the progress that you make. So please do check back with me and let me know. Even if it’s not working and you want to report that, we can have another talk or at least exchange via messages. Because I know you can do this, and I just want you to know you can do it. And then that’s all you need to know, is to know you can do it, and that’s the whole answer right there. That’s my advice. But I really want to hear their reaction when you change your tune a little bit.
Parent: Yeah, absolutely. I will write you.
Janet Lansbury: Alright, thank you so much.
Parent: Thank you, Janet.
Janet Lansbury: And you take care.
Parent: You as well.
Janet Lansbury: Bye-bye.
Parent: Bye.
♥
For more about setting boundaries in a manner that makes parenting easier (and helps us like our kids more!), please check out my bestselling book No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame and for a deeper dive, my self-paced No Bad Kids Master Course (http://nobadkidscourse.com) ♥
